This is a topic that irritates me like no other. I see/hear a lot of students talking about how it's better to be single when first starting out because of all the uncertainty, low wages, moving around ect. I simply don't aggree. It's not that I think attached pilots are better off, they have their pitfalls too; but I don't think that one trumps the other. There are so many variables involved in each scenerio and so many pros and cons to each, that's it's impossible to make a singular conclusion.
Last week I got peeved enough to break my cardinal rule (of not posting about hot topics on forums because I always get flamed and regret it) and posted on jet careers. I also forgot to take into account that I am probably dealing with someone who is young and thinks they know everything just as well as they might know airplane systems.
It started when I saw this post by Beechboy85:
well hopefully the "poverty" will only last 2-3 years as an FO, then at least ur making a living. I mean you can't go into this with a family, house, etc. and think ur going to be making loads of money. I think my chances are better going into this as a single guy, with few ties, and the ability to make sacrifices/accomidations for awhile at least.
Why is it better going into this (aviation) single. If you are in a position where you can share finances with someone else, wouldn't that HELP you? Make it less of a stretch to make that starting F/O salary work? So I posted this:
I hope you aren't implying that people who already have families and houses shouldn't get into aviation. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean that they should know that there will have to be a standard of living adjustment.
Going into this as a single guy isn't always best. Those who have wives/serious girlfriends who work are able to have that additional income and aren't so poverty stricken. The key is to find a partner who is willing to make some sacrifices in the short term for long term gain.
I should have just bit my tounge. I knew it. It's better to spend my time helping someone who has a family find a way to make it work then it is to try to make any headway with someone who obviously believes otherwise. So I got this post back by Beechboy 85:
Obviously I don't believe that those with a family shouldn't "get into this business." There have been, and will continue to be, many people who are sucessful in aviation with a family. All I'm saying is that a single male/female who can take on employment opportunties that they may or may not be able to take on with a family, may have more opportunties to advance quicker or be in a position to take a job with higher pay. There's no arguement that potentially moving to a new location once,twice, or more a year with a family is tough! Plus, should parents be home for their children, rather then being away four nights a week?
Second, there are VERY few people who are guareented anything in avaition (notice i say "aviation" and not "airline"). With that said, a person can put themself into a position where it is more practical to enter the industry. If someone wants to go out and sign there name on a $50,000+ loan with an interest rate of Prime + 1-9% (no particular companies mentioned), then HAVE AT IT!! What concerns me are those who go into this industry with tunnel vision of flying the "heavy metal", without any clear plan on how to pay this off and put food on the table in the process. The math is simple:
Family (spouse and children) + Large Flight School Debt (70,000+ w/interest) + No B.S. degree (or more student loan debt) + Low F/O beginning pay + Rent, utilities, etc. = DISASTER!!!
Third, I don't believe there is any "best" way to enter the industry. I chose to go to college first, getting a fall-back degree, then go to a professional flight school. All this while working my a@@ off in "other jobs" to have minimal debt. Some will go get a combined degree/flight training, some will "screw" the degree and go right to their local FBO (forget the majors and even some regionals now!). Whatever someone decides to do, I think the biggest thing is that they look at the future. Just because you want to fly more then "anyone", doesn't mean you should put yourself in a position where you simply can't cut the financial mustard. Doesn't this boil down to the fundimentals of RESPONSIBLITY...
I decied right then that the topic better belonged in another forum/post and I wasn't going to hijack the thread. This person OBVIOUSLY knows the one true way to make it work and wasn't going to be interested in what I had to say.
But I do feel the need to get out what my responses to this would be. Because I do firmly believe that there is more than one way to get through this. Here's my thoughts on this response:
All I'm saying is that a single male/female who can take on employment opportunties that they may or may not be able to take on with a family, may have more opportunties to advance quicker or be in a position to take a job with higher pay.
What employment opps are these? According to the federal gov't, discrimination based on marital status is illegal in companies that have 15 or more employees. And most smaller business don't have the HR skills to know that they can legal ask this question. So marital status would not preclude someone from pursuing any job. If they didn't take it, that would be up to them, but any single person would face the same decision.
There's no arguement that potentially moving to a new location once,twice, or more a year with a family is tough!
Moving really isn't that difficult. Thanks to this here interweb thing, moving is a lot easier now. Online reservations for a moving truck, online apt., daycare, job search, craigslist to get rid of possestions and hire people for truck loading/unloading. Fax machine to fax medical record and other requests as needed. I got us set up in less than a week for a move from CA to FL. One 3 day trip to Jax to visit my preselected locations and interview and about 8 hours online otherwise. And one pretty cool 5 day drive. I don't anticipate our next move will be any more difficult. And yes, I did it all with a 3 year old child.
Plus, should parents be home for their children, rather then being away four nights a week?
Hmmm, perhaps all those kids who are subject to custody aggreements can answer this one. They see one parent for less than 4 nights a week. Literature on the effect of this on kids is mixed at best. What about parents who work 60-80 hour weeks and barely see their kids. Yeah, they are home every night, for about 6 hours while their kids are asleep. How about firefighters? No one gives them shit when they do their shift at the station. Should they not have children either? As long as the child's routines are consistent and the child knows that the parent has not abandon them, I see no problem in it. The negligible custody that my ex has (9%) hasn't effected my son's feelings (of love)towards him.
Second, there are VERY few people who are guareented anything in avaition (notice i say "aviation" and not "airline"). With that said, a person can put themself into a position where it is more practical to enter the industry. If someone wants to go out and sign there name on a $50,000+ loan with an interest rate of Prime + 1-9% (no particular companies mentioned), then HAVE AT IT!! What concerns me are those who go into this industry with tunnel vision of flying the "heavy metal", without any clear plan on how to pay this off and put food on the table in the process. The math is simple:
Family (spouse and children) + Large Flight School Debt (70,000+ w/interest) + No B.S. degree (or more student loan debt) + Low F/O beginning pay + Rent, utilities, etc. = DISASTER!!!
Hmm, this equation seems not to take into effect the possibillity of the spouse/partner working as well. Or other variables. We rent out our house in CA and it pays for itself and then some. It's making us money. We used a home equity loan to pay for school and have a better interest rate than a traditional loan. BS degrees were earned with scholarships and grants; no money to pay back. Right now, we are able to live just on my salary and anything A earns is dessert. Doesn't seem like we are headed for disaster at all. Plus, you can't get approved for a loan if they don't think you will be able to repay it. So those truely in danger probably wouldn't get approved anyway.
Third, I don't believe there is any "best" way to enter the industry. I chose to go to college first, getting a fall-back degree, then go to a professional flight school. All this while working my a@@ off in "other jobs" to have minimal debt. Some will go get a combined degree/flight training, some will "screw" the degree and go right to their local FBO (forget the majors and even some regionals now!). Whatever someone decides to do, I think the biggest thing is that they look at the future. Just because you want to fly more then "anyone", doesn't mean you should put yourself in a position where you simply can't cut the financial mustard. Doesn't this boil down to the fundimentals of RESPONSIBLITY...
If you have a family, you won't be able to "cut the financial mustard" and it is irresponsible to go into the profession? But really, there doesn't seem to be any basis for it at all. Yeah, not all people will be able to go about it the way we have, but to make a blanket statement is just wrong. None of this argument takes into account the positive ways that having a partner would contribute to finances. Are all the sacrifices a burgeoning pilot has to make financial?
Like I said, I would rather spend my time helping someone else figure out how to make it work with a family then debating my prior made choices. After all, there are so many varibles for each person that there is no one path to success. And who but that person can determine what "success" is? And if one way were determined to be better, would the people who then found themselves not on the best path act to remedy that (ie get married/divorced)? I doubt it. So really, for me, there is no point in aruging the case any further. But it still irritates me to hear people with self righteous beliefs about this.
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